LFM again? You’ve got to be kidding

This is becoming a monthly occurrence

So once again I am back ranting about the same issues over and over again, and it is starting to get me truly frustrated. I got home a bit late on Wednesday for the raid, which was suppose to be either ToTGC for some 258 upgrades and Professor Putricide attempts. Our raid invites go out at 6:15 server and we take on time at 6:30. Well I logged on at 6:30 something, and there were less than 20 people in the raid. I just do not understand how we can go through such a good night of raiding the night before, killing two new bosses on both 10 and 25 man with little effort in the grand scheme of things, then not show up the next day for the real progression encounter.

On top of that, we are once again short people as not one but two of our priests bailed on us. One of them had to leave for school for the second time this expansion. Now while its frustrating, killing Anub’arak and Professor Putricide is no where near as important as your education and real life. When I saw that, from a raiding perspective, it sucked because we just got him completely geared up again and ready for content. However, the other priest to jump ship was a even more frustrating. One of our officers and legendary maces just cryptically said that he doesnt miss the game and wont be coming back after the holiday break.

While everyone is entitled to do what they please with their monthly subscription fee, I personally fell that officers, and people who have received a weapon that truly belongs to the guild have a higher obligation. I personally am losing the motivation to play with our guild, but it is my obligation as a MT to stick it out till at least the expansion pack. I think a lot of people don’t see this. Now beyond the amazing amounts of gear and legendary that we lavished our officer with, he was never much of a active leader, so from that perspective we are ok. The biggest problem with these two leaving is that they were two of our better healers, and we still have more than enough to do the encounters, however not enough to have the flexibility for the hard modes, as well as the attendance on our less stellar days.

Obligations and Exits

This has gotten me to think about how I feel about my role in the guild and the game, and how I would make an exit if my time has come. From my perspective, I already know the day I am going to hang up this game, and it has been predetermined by my loyalty to the 15 people that show up day in and day out. The day that the Expansion shows up, I will exit stage left. I am already longing for that day, as dealing with some of the more colorful characters in my guild is not an enjoyable experience, and I feel that even though we are an exceptional guild, who was in the upper echelons of this game, we are still burdened with the casual attitude of carrying less than stellar players because they have earned it by staying around for a really long time.

There is a small part of me that wants to enjoy the truly hard core, where if you are the bottom of the charts, or the guy who always gets hit by flying spell x, you are kicked and a more willing and eager replacement does a better job. However, my loyalty and conscience keep me from that. I have taken more gear than any raider by a considerable amount, and I am the only truly geared tank with any respectable attendance. This is just not something I can do to the friends I have made in my guild over the past few years.

The fork in the road always leads to recruitment

So here is where I go, once again, as we do every other month. We are going to open up recruitment and try to find another diamond in the rough. We are not a high enough tier of guild where we can just say we want some new priests, and tons of people are willing to server transfer. We have to recruit from with in Destromath. A few months ago we got really lucky. We were in need of another rogue, as a few of ours had school conflicts and were just not meeting the attendance requirements that we wanted. We picked up a friend of one of our best raiders, who was vastly under geared and in his first raid his dps was so so at about 5k dps. In a few short weeks of 100% attendance and a lot of gear, he has moved from close to last on the charts to a 10k plus dps machine. If we could get even one more of those in the priest department we would be set.

I know I shouldn’t be complaining, We are a top 500 guild with the capability of clearing pre nerf content with the best of them, in a very small amount of attempts. But for once I felt like our guild was in a great spot when we left for Christmas, we had 35 people in ever raid when we opened up invites, we got Anub hard mode on farm, ICC was a joke, and we were looking forward to clearing some great content. Now we are back in that place of uncertainty, looking for more, and its just frustrating. We will surely survive, we have for 5 years. We will clear almost all of the content, killing more than most, but not reaching that full potential on the cutting edge.

Professor Putricide

The good doctor is stitting with 10 attempts left on him in both my 10 man and the 25 man main raid. here is to hoping that we can get a raid together for Sunday to give it our best. I honestly think that we can kill him this week if we get our A raid in there. We have stellar dps, You only need one tank for most of the fight, and our healers are great. We have always killed things in a very small number of attempts and this would be no different, we just have to get in there.

Gratz to the few of you who have killed him, and good luck to those of you who are still waiting to for a shot…


14 Responses to “LFM again? You’ve got to be kidding”

  1. January 8, 2010 at 1:12 pm

    That’s rough Wrathy, I’m sorry to hear that. Nothing is worse than dealing with recruitment issues and trying to keep a consistent raid core.

    That priest should never have accepted Val’nyr if they were ever inclined to take breaks in the middle of a new patch cycle. It’s a jerk move to accept a huge tool that an entire guild works to make, and for all intents and purposes belongs to the guild, and then go on hiatus. Especially for a trivial reason like boredom. It’s not fair to the folks that put the effort in to get you that mace.

  2. 2 Sapria
    January 8, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    That sucks, I know some what of that frustration, Im in a mostly 10 man guild, we’ve been into ICC10 everyweek since it came out and have yet to down DBS, maybe tonight we will get him down. I’m the only tank in guild that has the gear for there and I’m not even that well geared and we always have to pug a tank and healer or 2, so its always a crap shoot. Be interesting to see what happens tonight. On the upside, our servers progression is good, so people are out there to find. Our guild is actually quite large as we seem to be a leveling guild as well(not my choice, Im not an officer) so maybe we could find that diamond in the rough eventually. We’ve had a few people just vanish and it’s always annoying.

  3. January 8, 2010 at 2:46 pm

    Turnover is a fact of life. I looked at the list of players who were there for our first kills in Ulduar, do you know how many are still raiding? 4, and that’s from the 25 man groups. Even dating back to our first ToC 25 kill, less than half of the group is still raiding with us. My original Ulduar Ten “Super Group” only has two of it’s original members left. 80% turnover over two content patches.

    Diligent recruiting is a must to maintain forward progress. It sucks when people that you counted on suddenly leave. Believe me, I know. But people will replace them. There’s more people playing this game then there are people in Ohio.

    You just have to get the word out there. There’s excellent passive recruiting tools, such as wowprogress, or World of Raids, which I noticed your guild is not taking advantage of. You can leave a nonspecific recruiting pattern up on those sites to make sure that you’ll be on the radar of anyone who is in the market for a new guild.

    There’s also more active recruiting. For when you need new bodies fast, this is what comes in handy. Posting on the realm, battlegroup, and recruiting forums, plus checking up on any friends of current members can go a long way towards filling in gaps.

    One of the things I’ve strived for is to maintain a baseline of passive recruiting for my guild. So that people remain interested in us, and if a gap opens up, then it’s that much easier to find a replacement.

    • 4 Wrathy
      January 8, 2010 at 5:29 pm

      I guess I am getting a bit too emo, we probably have 15 people from our first Ulduar kills in the raid, maybe even more. But that isnt the problem, we have had the same core forever, its just we have not been very successful in adding to the core…

    • January 8, 2010 at 9:17 pm

      Craziness. We still have 19 raiders from the group that cleared Sunwell, out of 31 active raiders. A few of the other 12 have turned over, over the past 2 years, but we’re predominantly the same guild. And even with all recruitment closed, we still have 60 or 70 apps per week hit the inbox.

      • January 8, 2010 at 11:52 pm

        That’s somewhat to be expected Mel, of the three of us, you’ve got the most progressed guild. Crypt Friends is further than Legacy, so there’s more room to go up with our guilds, which means more people are going to be trying to reach that next level.

        If a member of Edge wants more progression, they need to go to another server.
        If a member of Crypt Friends wants more progression, there’s one guild solidly ahead of them, and another 2 that are on par.
        If a member of Legacy wants more progression, there’s about 10 other guilds that can provide that, and back in Ulduar, that number was closer to 30.

        So Edge has pretty much eliminated progression as a reason for leaving, which is why your turnover is so much lower. You’ve got a dedicated core of about 30 raiders. Crypt Friends has a core of 15, and Legacy has a core of about 10, and even those core raiders for us have been prone to some turnover.

        But on the other hand, that lack of unity will allow for a more continuous raid core in the event that Legacy falls apart. I’d be willing to bet that if Edge broke up, the majority of the raiders would quit WoW altogether. The attatchment to the guild is just stronger.

      • January 9, 2010 at 1:35 am

        @TRM (because I can’t nest replies any further, and I’m not sure this’ll end up in the right spot):

        I don’t have a lot of experience with guilds, Edge is the only raiding guild I’ve been in, in my relatively short WoW career. I can’t tell you what might be the same or might be different, why Edge has hung onto people so well. The kind of turnover you describe still feels like craziness to me. I’d go insane as a raidleader trying to get used to that many new people and their good and bad habits.

        To be strictly fair, there’s more to the story than just progression. Edge was US-1000 or so when I joined (in early 2.3), and there was at least one significantly more progressed guild on-server. I don’t really know why it’s stuck together so well, it might just be the guild culture that the original GM and officers founded and built, we might just be exceedingly lucky.

        That cohesiveness is one of the reasons that we’ve gone from US-1000 or so to US-50 or so. Teamwork improves, group reactions improve. It doesn’t show up on a spreadsheet, but it matters. People perform better when there’s a sense of belonging to the team and not wanting to let the team down.

      • 8 Wrathy
        January 9, 2010 at 5:50 pm

        It’s a little more simple than members leaving us for lack of content, I don’t think we have ever lost one to that, is more of leaving the game for good. And, if people want a farther progressed guild they would either have to faction or server xfr, and even then crisis is not really far enough ahead to pull from us.

      • January 9, 2010 at 10:56 pm

        I’m not saying that’s what’s happenening to ya’ll here, I’m saying that as progression improves, you lose the turnover due to people who want a more hardcore experience. That’s why ya’ll have less turnover than we do, and why Mel has less than either. For the most part, every guild winds up losing someone from time to time due to schedule changes and life changing epiphanies. That’s never going to change.

  4. 10 Dunbaron
    January 8, 2010 at 11:27 pm

    Hey Wrathy,

    I’m really sorry to hear about A. leaving, He’s a great healer and it will be incredibly hard to find someone of equal caliber. Not that it ultimately would have made a difference, but I felt comfortable leaving the ranks assuming that the other two would still be there. I’m truly sorry that this is not the case.

    Having those extra classes is something that was sprung on me by my faculty, I did not know about them until a few days ago and likely would not have picked up raiding again had I known, so I apologize for eating up the gear just to leave again as well :/

    As has been stated many times, Crypt Friends is an incredibly resilient guild, due in a large part to the officers such as yourself, and I’m positive that things will work out well in the end, if not in the most ideal way.

    All the best,


    P.S. I’m going to continue to read your blog even though I’m no longer in the World of Warcraft, so you better not exit stage left any time soon 😉

  5. 11 Eredor
    January 11, 2010 at 1:33 am

    This is a hard time indeed.
    We have been plagued by such problems but we are a casual if very ancient guild.
    I would not have thought that a guild of your caliber would have the same troubles.

    Our best time was with naxx with 2 concurrent 25 rosters and almost a raid a day.
    After that it all went down with summer vacation & Aion.

    We have just begun to rebuild the 25 roster, are very late compared to other guilds and it is very frustrating for us not to be able to advance in ICC25 because of players that can’t play well, others who lose motivation very fast ( we fully ToC25 equipped a tank which then decided he didn’t want to tank anymore) which is all the more frustrating that some of us are perfectly capable and indeed clear anything in PUG (and get recruitment offers 😉

    I must say I find myself dreaming of a 10-man orientated guild with casual but serious players that know their real life will not afford them enough time for world first and such – and especially not wasting time with continuous recruiting and restuffing, but want to maximize their playing time to advance in raid as far as possible.

  6. 12 Amico
    January 11, 2010 at 1:36 am

    Hey Wrathy!
    Losing people sucks, having people not showing up sucks even more. I can not compare my own situation at the same level. But back in the days I was a member of a “hardcore” guild and when that guild went to shambles we split up all ways. I still play with some of them, but the 3 days a week was too much. So I made my own guild and we do 10man content. And just 1 day a week, but getting people motivated for that is hard aswell. One would think that the base of ex-hardcore raiders I got in the guild would make it easy to create a 10man once a week, but alot of times I just have to cancel when 2 hours before the raid I only have 6-8 people replying to the invite. And that has been out 1 week. Motivation is a strange beast, and as a tank I think we feel it that much harder. It seems to me that if you are a tank in a guild, responisibility naturally falls on your shoulders. It is a tough job to get people to care. We recently lost our dk tank, he just decided he was bored with the game one day, and I havent seen him online since. So now I have to beg one of my rl friends to log an alt and raid with us. So, starting out I wanted to recomend gathering up some friends and start a 10man guild for cataclysm, but after considering my own situation (hardcore at hearth, but no time), I am not sure that would be a good solution. This is my 9th year playing mmo’s (started with anarhcy online in 2001).. And thinking what I lost and gained from all that time, it is not much. I have gotten 3-4 friends, I mean propper ones I keep in touch with on a daily basis. But somewhere in the distance, there is a fat lady comming towards me, and I am pretty sure she is gonna sing…

  7. 13 Unknown
    January 11, 2010 at 4:26 pm

    I’m in a sticky situation atm, thought this is a good palce to put it since the situations are linked (kind of a confession).

    I’ll keep names out of it to avoid others reading this who may know me. I’m in a great progression guild who are raiding ICC10-25, killed all apart from Proff. I’m a Tank for the guild, 1 of 3 Main tanks,(we’re all as good as each other gear wise, no need to say who’s a Mt since we rotate.)

    Lately I’ve been feeling that raiding is falling further away from me which means wow is becoming more and more pointless for me. I’ve stopped farming as many Emblems of Frost I can possibly in the week, I really enjoyed the xmas break as it seemed I was free to do what I wanted. I feel like I’m needed by the guild for the need to progress. I have no idea if raiding will interest me again in the near future or ever. However much I love being in my guild with those special few ppl I like, I do find that I feel that if I stop raiding that’s it for me and I won’t ever come back.

    My problem is if I do feel the need to leave which happens to everyone does anyone have any ideas on the best way to end it, I would of course give my absence leave and a certain time frame for them to get another to replace me, but finding a new tank ready for progression is a difficult one and would take time for the guild to gear up to the required level.

    Of course I don’t know if it will come to this but at this moment in time I feel like it is very possible, wow has been my life since I started playing back in 07, I’ve usually gone by the phrase WoW > RL.

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