New thoughts on threat

Who Doesn’t Want More Threat?

I was reading MainTankadin a few days ago and I came across Theck’s newest calculations on the best weapons for threat in 3.3. While I will have to say that we are a long way from having the instance on farm and as a result, letting me crack some heads for 10k sustained tps, it got me to thinking about the gear and when I want to pick it up. As most of you know, I am an avid gear swapper. I probably swap gear as much as anyone else in the game, and I consider it a testament to the knowledge of the encounters that I possess as well as a greater understanding of my role and when and what I should be doing. I love it when I see other tanks swapping out their gear. When we get a new recruit and they all of a sudden have a different gear set on, it makes me smile.

Back to the topic at hand. I wanted to discuss the options we have for threat weapons and I noticed that because of the boss where our best in slot tps weapon drops is already available, it would be important to get that information out there sooner than later. I started a discussion on my guild forums regarding the Bloodvenom Blade, asking our rouges if any of them would want it for their main spec. The responses I got brought out the loot whore in me. The overwhelming response from our guilds rogues is that they would rather stick with mutilate, and not go for combat till it proves to provide more sustained dps. This means that I don’t feel as bad if I take one the next time it drops (as one already has and went to a rogue for offspec). Why all this discussion about a rogue sword and who cares, well I will elaborate. Here is the Bloodvenom Blade:

It has a little bit of everything. It is slow, with nice top end damage, and comes along with all the stats you want for a threat weapon, hit, attack power, and agility.  While it has armor pen, and that is not ideal for us, it is still by far our best option when it comes to threat weapons. Now before you go and post a comment that asks “Where is the defense?” Well you don’t need the defense on this weapon. You will have plenty of defense from your gear alone to keep you over the minimum, and besides that you only use a threat weapon when you have gimmick fights like Hodir Hard mode, or if you have something on farm. I personally will be using one of these bad boys for most of ICC normal once I pick it up, as the fights seem pretty straight forward and I wont need my Progression MT set for a lot of them. Before the second question pops into your head, that one where you wonder well why not any of the other dps weapons? Here is your answer. Theck did his usual great analysis for all of the different weapons that are available to us and posted this graph in the MATLAB TPS thread:

I also posted this in my guild forum thread when someone asked what is 1V, 3C, 3R? While I would think that most of us can interpret the meanings of this legend, there are some people that come here that are not seasoned paladins. For clarity’s sake, 1V refers to placing one point into Conviction, 3C refers to placing three points into Crusade, and 3R refers to placing three points into reckoning. What this graph shows us is that the Bloodvenom Blade is best in slot when it comes to threat producing weapons. The good news for us is that it is not a weapon that is currently used by rogues in their main raiding spec, and it drops off of Deathbringer Saurfang. Since we already have access to the normal version of this weapon, which happens to be second best over all, we have the ability to pick this up.

I would suggest that anyone who builds multiple sets, especially a threat set, should think about getting this if no one else in your guild wants it. I have used a DPS weapon as my threat weapon for quite some time now, and I have always been happy with the results.

Expertise and 3.3

I also wanted to use this post to talk about some new perceptions when it comes to expertise. While we have always stressed that expertise is a good stat when it comes to threat and “avoidance,” there have been some discoveries about Shield of Righteousness in the past few days. With the changes to Shield of Rightousness, expertise has moved into position as the most important threat stat until you are soft capped. For those of you who have not been following the discussion on MainTankadin, there was a stealth change to SoR that made it act like a physical attack which could be dodged or parried, meaning that our biggest snap threat skill is effected by expertise. The graph below shows that expertise has the highest threat per point until you hat 26 expertise (also known as the soft cap).

It is important to know that while it drops off after you hit the soft cap, and it is no longer considered the best threat stat, once again strength becomes the most important threat stat past the soft expertise cap. Although expertise is no longer the best threat stat once you hit 26, it is sit a very powerful stat when it comes to damage intake prevention, so for your main tank set, more expertise is always ok, until you hit the hard cap of 56 (which is very hard if not impossible to do while maintaining tanking stats).


6 Responses to “New thoughts on threat”

  1. December 12, 2009 at 3:01 pm

    I think that the real question is how much survivability you lose by switching from a tanking weapon to a DPS weapon. Going to the Bloodvenom Blade from Heroic Crusader’s Glory, you lose 37 stamina, .45% avoidance, 522 armor, and 58 strength.

    It’s a fun little tool for farm content, but it’s no different from swapping out tanking trinkets for Darkmoon: Greatness.

  2. December 12, 2009 at 4:09 pm

    From the chart above, your trade there gains roughly 500 tps. Also from the chart above, that’s like finding 165 strength on gear. Pretty close to trading a stamina trinket (162 stamina, say) for a DMC:G. You lose roughly 370 armor (agility gives you armor), 37 stamina, and some avoidance. The strength is a wash, it’s a threat stat, it’s counted already. Avoidance isn’t a survival stat.

    I’d rather lose 370 armor and 37 stamina, AT best equivalent to 70 stamina, than lose 162 stamina.

    Plus, less parry-hastes. Fringe benefit. When you’re looking for a few-hundred TPS, it’s a very high value trade to replace a tanking weapon with a slow DPS weapon. It’s not always going to be the best choice, but it’s one of the early places to look, especially if you’re running out of actual tanking gear with more threat-stats.

    That said, I’ve never managed to score a dps weapon early enough to beat the tanking weapons I have access to. I’m unlikely to do so in this tier, I will happily let the rogues take the sword for “offspec” against the case that they might need to be combat for a progression fight. It’s highly unlikely that I’ll get an ICC dps weapon early (or ever).

  3. 3 Wrathy
    December 12, 2009 at 9:35 pm

    Well it’s my best friends birthday so I’m a bit inebriated, but really the post was to postulate what weapon we should use once survival is no longer an issue. The point of the Bloodvenom Blade was it was a weapon that you can use once you are confident that you CAN sacrifice the stamina, defense, and avoidance. It was never to suggest that you should use it in your Main tanking set as an option for TPS increase. The whole point of a “threat Set” is trading things such as stamina, avoidance, and mitigation for threat.

  4. December 13, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    I wonder if there are any strength/crit/hit one-handers out there. I’d like to grab a nice threat weapon for farm stuff, but I can’t find anything that isn’t some Rogue/Enh Shammy hand-me-down. A weapon with ArP makes me feel dirty. (Still angling for the QD, though, for the coolness factor.)

  5. December 15, 2009 at 5:46 am

    No, since Fury got Titan’s grip, Blizz killed the Strength/Crit build of one handers, much like they axed SP/Def plate, and a few other oddball sets. That was one of the reasons why Last Laugh was causing trouble, was because the Frost/Unholy DW builds that were in vogue at the time got so much out of the Strength on Last Laugh that it outweighed the fact that it carried tanking secondary stats. Of course, Blizzard solved that problem by destroying that particular DK spec. Rogue/Shaman/Frost hand me downs are pretty much the best we can hope for.

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