25
Nov
09

Epiphany and Dilemma

A Digression from the plan

I know that I said that I was going to go over each of the options for our tier pieces and the off set gear so that we can better understand how we want to spend our emblems of frost, but I came to the realization this morning that I have indirectly had a hand in something that I am not happy about. I will have to admit somethings that you may or may not care to hear in order to tell this story, so I apologize in advance if you get any bad images in your head.

Morning Reading…

As I said yesterday, I have had quite a few emails and blogs to read over the past few days, since my return home, and I just finished catching up this morning. I was spending some leisure time at work in the john reading everyones blogs over the past week, when I came across one by Tengen. He was outlining the proper etiquette one should hold themselves to when leaving their guild for “greener pastures.” It initially got me to thinking about my guild and the times that I have wanted to move on so that I would not have to deal with the poor attendance.

To be honest, I am pretty sure that I would quit the game before I would leave my guild, however there are always unforeseen forces in the future which can change things. However, I digress. When I was reading Tengen’s blog, he mentioned another fellow blogger, which was the source of inspiration for his blog topic. Dämmerung of The Children of Wrath had a post on the subject that I must of originally skipped over in my reader, because if I would have read it, this would have been my topic of discussion yesterday. Tengen was talking about the methods and stories of different people as the leave their guilds.

After I finished reading Tengen’s blog, I had to get back to work and I didn’t give it another thought for a few hours. Then, out of no where, I realized that the blog was about people defecting and going to another guild. I also realized that Dämmerung is the GM of a guild called Legacy. Like dominoes, all the pieces started falling together, and I stopped working on what ever it was that I was working on and opened up Children of Wrath to find this topic that Tengen spoke of, and found what I was hoping was not the story.

From the epiphany comes a dilemma

As I read the opening line of the blog, I already knew the story, with out needing to see my guilds name half way down the page.

We recently lost a group of five players to faction transfer.

As you may remember, I was talking about some attendance issues that our guild was having. Really in the long run, we were doing fine, we cleared all available content save Anub 25 man Hard mode in one and a half raid nights, but the progression fights were hurting. Well, while I was on vacation over the past week and a half, my guild picked up five faction transfers from a guild called…Legacy.

I normally don’t give a second thought to the previous places that our new recruits came from, and I only focus on the future of working them into a raid, understanding their needs and their motivations, and over all seeing if they are a good fit for our guild. However, today I am faced with both sides of the story. I feel as though our blogging community is a small guild of its own. We share similar interests and we talk amongst ourselves regularly. Knowing that I am the result of some unwanted stress and pain is not how I wanted to end my day. Even more so, the question has crept into my mind, do I really want people like that in my guild?

Apologies and Considerations…

Mr. Renaissance Man, I feel for the first time, regret and empathy for the guild and the leader which some of our applicants left to join us. It is an interesting coincidence that the source of your frustration and my own guild and raiding team are one and the same tangled web. With that being said, I have to figure out what I should do about these new recruits. Originally, I was going to treat them as I do any other member of our guild, but I feel that I should be wary of their actions prior to leaving their previous guild.

I guess with every end, there is a new beginning…

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5 Responses to “Epiphany and Dilemma”


  1. 2 Tonab Shin
    November 26, 2009 at 5:07 am

    This goes to show that even if you leave your guild behind and even the realm, your actions can follow you. Hopefully this gets around and people think again about leaving things in such a bad place. If they would have given forewarning about leaving, not taken so many items using up their dkp and not stolen items from the Gbank (I don’t care if they might have helped them get those items or even donated them there themselves, they were still Gbank property) then it might be an understandable action.

    People leave guilds every day with the intention of going to a better one (not implying that either guild is “better”) but leaving on those terms would put me at question to let them in the guild, let alone trust them. What if they find they aren’t happy with this guild either and move on? Unless your desperate to have these players in your guild its really not worth the risk or the bad PR.

  2. November 26, 2009 at 4:07 pm

    In general, people leave raiding when they leave , and stay in the guild as friends, or they leave the game. 9/10, we get advanced notice, the people stop taking loot, and continue to help in raids until we can get a qualified replacement in. Those are the people who get to come back when RL circumstances afford them the opportunity to return to raiding. The other people, who just up and quit, have a harder (impossible, without extenuating circumstances) road to travel. To me, leaving for greener pastures, for whatever reason, with no notice, falls into roughly the same category. Unless there’s some kind of extenuating circumstance, it’s an act of moral cowardice. One needs to decide how much of that one can tolerate. That said, there’s the perspective of Children of Wrath, but these 5 raiders also probably have their own perspective, and you should discuss it with them, Wrathy. There’s really only one side of the coin presented. No disrespect to Renaissance Man intended, but they may have a totally different perspective on what went down.

    On the DKP issue… I’ve never run in a guild with DKP, but to my knowledge it basically works as “currency earned”. There’s an argument that they have every right to spend any accumulated DKP. Would they have been prevented from spending DKP if they’d announced that they were leaving? It’s certainly in the guild’s best interest, but it’s not necessarily fair, and that might have contributed to no-notice departure, as it’s certainly not in their best interest to lose the accumulated “pay”. If you stopped getting paid when you gave your two weeks notice at work, you’ld take them the court.

    Just some thoughts. I’ve learned in my time at the helm of Edge, that there’s often bad feelings and/or drama when someone moves on, it’s not always a reflection on the quality of the applicant. Sometimes it is, so it’s important to investigate, but it’s definitely important to try and get both sides, as best as you can. In this case you have an advantage, you can set up to talk to these 5 raiders (or some portion thereof) separately and sequentially, and hopefully get individual perspectives, which should highlight any inconsistencies, and help you get at the truth of the matter. One of our very best raiders for nearly 6 months now, came to us in a storm of controversy that nearly torpedoed his app. We’re lucky it didn’t, he puts out extremely high numbers, he’s got 100% attendance, a great attitude – he’s always upbeat, he contributes to strats without taking things amiss when his ideas aren’t used – he’s all around a near perfect raider, and he’s in a pretty critical role. But he was labelled the Destroyer of Guilds by his ex-GM, who made a point of seeking us out to warn us (acting very reasonably and politely). It turns out, as far as we’ve ever been able to tell, to be just general upset from the 20-year-old GM of the prior guild that his top raider felt the need to up and leave – possibly after lots of notice and chances to deal with the problem, the two sides disagree. On the other hand, we had almost exactly the same situation happen with an applicant who didn’t make it through the trial period. Turns out, everything the old GM said was bang-on.

  3. November 28, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    This whole situation’s still really raw with me right now. I read this post several times, and didn’t really have any idea of what exactly I wanted to say.

    You have nothing to apologize for, Wrathy. You weren’t trying to poach players from us, you weren’t even online. I lay none of this at your feet.

    I didn’t write that post to trash Crypt Friends, or even to trash those who left. That post came from my uncertainty and frustration with the situation, and my need to commit my thoughts to a more concrete form. I’m still not exactly sure where I’m going to go from this junction, but my intention was not to cause you any more stress.

    I appreciate your considerations however, and good luck on Anub’Arak.

  4. November 30, 2009 at 8:04 am

    I second Gravity’s “wow”. What a small world it is.


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